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    Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

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    Virtia
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    Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Virtia on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:41 am

    Note that all of these Carbines are common to the Light Assault AND engineer classes. Both the gun unlocks AND all purchase attachments can be used on both classes without having to buy them twice.

    Carbines, General
    Solstice
    Damage: 143-100@115m
    Mag: 30/150
    Reload: 1.65s/2.2s
    Speed: 515m/s
    ROF: 698
    The Solstice is a solid all-rounder, with all the major options. Really, there’s not much to say about this weapon, and its inclusion here is really only for comparison purposes.


    Solstice Burst (100)
    Damage: 143-100@115m
    Mag: 30/150
    Reload: 1.65s/2.2s
    Speed: 515m/s
    ROF: 698
    As with all Burst variant weapons, the only difference between this and the Solstice is that it has a 3 round burst firing mode. Skip it. You can do the same thing for free by not having horrible trigger discipline.


    Solstice SF (500)
    Damage: 143-100@115m
    Mag: 30/150
    Reload: 1.65s/2.2s
    Speed: 515m/s
    ROF: 698
    The SF variant Solstice is a fairly excellent upgrade for a generalist. It offers both ammunition types, scopes from 1x reflex up to 6x, all the barrel options, and all of the rail options. The Underbarrel grenade/smoke launchers are especially notable for their utility. The GL will kill in one hit, but has a very very narrow splash radius (though it is very accurate once you learn its drop). It’s particularly excellent for LA’s jumping in. The Smoke, on the other hand, is pretty solid for providing a screen for an engineer who needs to repair a vehicle in a somewhat hot zone and wants some cover from sniper fire.

    The Underbarrel Shotgun is notable for being horrible. It is a one-shot kill, only at point blank range, where you could have just shot them in the head with like four normal shots. It also has a one-shot magazine, which is pretty awful.


    Carbines, CQC
    VX6-7 (1000)
    Damage: 143-100@115m
    Mag: 30/150
    Reload: 2.15s/2.7s
    Speed: 465m/s
    ROF: 800

    Serpent (1000)
    Damage: 143-100@115m
    Mag: 30/150
    Reload: 2.65s/3.8s
    Speed: 420m/s
    ROF: 845
    Both of these are AMAZING short-range carbines with slight differences to set them apart. Both of them get the excellent Advanced Laser Sight, and should never be used without this attachment.

    In the VX’s favor, it has a notably better cone of fire when firing from the hip, as well as a significantly faster reload time. Additionally, the slightly faster bullet velocity means it doesn’t feel like you have to overcompensate for leading shots too much.

    In the Serpent’s favor, the faster ROF gives it higher DPS. It also has slightly lower per-shot recoil than the VX does (though the faster ROF means it has fairly similar overall recoil behavior). The lower per-shot recoil is more manageable in ADS fire modes, though, giving the Serpent slightly better mid-range accuracy (though it’s still not great). The Serpent also has lower first-shot recoil multipliers (2.5x instead of the VX’s 3x), which further cements its mid-range ADS advantage. The projectiles on this thing are slow as balls though, meaning you WILL have to lead targets, especially if you use a suppressor.

    Either of these is a fantastic option. My personal preference is for the better hipfire on the VX – if I want a CQC carbine, I want it to be VERY CQC, not to dabble in midranges. That said, if you can compensate for the slight accuracy differences, the lower TTK of the Serpent may be more to your liking. If anyone cares, the VX’s recoil is up and to the right, while the Serpent’s is up and to the left, though I doubt that will sway you one way or the other.


    Carbines, Long-Range
    Pulsar C (250)
    Damage: 167-112@115m
    Mag: 30/150
    Reload: 2s/2.65s
    Speed: 515m/s
    ROF: 577
    The Pulsar C is an EXCELLENT long-range option. As is standard for long range weapons, its shots hit nice and hard (it also has a naturally extended falloff range – 112m compare to the usual 100m). It can equip sights up to 6x, as well as the fantastic Advanced Foregrip rail accessory. With a Compensator and Adv. Foregrip, you have a brilliant medium-long range platform. Its relatively low ROF means you will be flat outclassed at point-blank ranges though, but Engineers should rarely be in that position and Light Assaults can often jet out of it. If you want to take your LA up to some hidden perch and plink at the groundies, this is a great weapon for you.



    Recommendations:
    --The Solstice SF's versatility makes it a great early option, and I recommend packing it when venturing into unknown territory.
    --Either of the short-range options are fantastic weapons, but they fill a tactical niche that *can* be mostly filled by a shotgun, so you may want to avoid buying one of these.
    --The Pulsar C is fantastic at what it does, but it will get you killed up close. Personally, I wouldn't advise going for this unless you're very sure that it's how you want to play. I do use it occasionally, but purely in a harassment role (eg, getting on a roof in a bio lab as light assault)
    --The multi-class support here makes buying any Carbine a very attractive option if you multi-role heavily. Engi and LA are my most commonly played classes anyways.


    Last edited by Virtia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Krydical
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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Krydical on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:22 pm

    Dear Virtia,
    Why do I suck so much in infantry combat? I am a BR33 Engie in dire need of combat skeelz. I geeked my Solstice with suppressor, OG-4 scope, and forward grip. However I couldnt kill a infil with no ammo. So I invested the Thantoes (sp) shotgun and tricked it out with slug ammo, and OG-4. Once again I was flash road kill.

    My last effort was the VX weapon, with SP ammo, OG4 scope, forward grips, and flash suppressor. Needless to say my killing skills are AWOL.

    I mostly fight CQC whenever I do get brave to leave the safety of my Lightning. Please help me Obi-w..Virtia you are my only hope.

    signed..
    beamer fodder..
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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Virtia on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:58 pm

    Heh.

    If you're fighting that close, are you ADS'ing or hipfiring? If you're ADSing at close/CQC ranges, you're pretty much doing it wrong. ADS slows your movement and narrows your cone of view, meaning anyone else is going to be harder to track at close ranges.

    Also, if you're fighting at CQC, all the attachments you've named are either 1) bad (SP Ammo), or 2) wrong for that engagement range (foregrips, 4x optical scopes, Slug ammo).

    The VX6-7 is pretty much an ideal CQC weapon, so try running it with nothing but the advanced laser sight on it. If you must throw optics on it, go for the HS/NV option and ONLY use it to help spot people at night or infiltrators anytime. I roll my VX6-7 with stock ammo, no suppressor, HS/NV and Advanced Laser, and it's a beast.

    Alternatively, the Thanatos really should be a fantastic CQC weapon. All it needs is the extended mags. Don't use slugs if you're going to be up close. As with the VX, the only scope worth using on it up close is the HS/NV, and then only to help spot people while you're beyond engagement range.


    If you happen to be one of our older readers whose reaction time sadly leaves something to be desired, then try just not fighting at CQC ranges. The VX6-7 is still acceptable out to medium range with the kit you have on it (less the SP ammo). Just control your bursts an you can engage just fine.

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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Krydical on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:34 pm

    for the VX weapon it has multiple levels for the laser sights. What improvements are there with the levels? and can the NME see the red beam coming out of it?

    What is ADS?
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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Virtia on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:55 pm

    Krydical wrote:for the VX weapon it has multiple levels for the laser sights. What improvements are there with the levels? and can the NME see the red beam coming out of it?

    What is ADS?

    ADS = Aim Down Sights, which basically means holding the right mouse button to aim. Hipfiring is just not doing that, using your normal crosshairs. ADS is helpful at mid/long ranges, as it is more accurate overall. However, it also narrows your cone of view (meaning it's harder to see people flanking you), slows your walking speed, and generally makes it harder to track moving targets up close, especially at CQC ranges.

    The second level of laser sight gives nearly double the bonus of the first level. The Laser Sight in general just improves your base cone of fire when firing from the hip, effectively making you more accurate overall in hipfire. It does not assist with either recoil control or cone of fire bloom, but starting from a more accurate first shot means your successive shots will be relatively more accurate.

    The enemy CAN see the laser, but you can press L to toggle its visibility on and off. You still get the full bonus while the laser is toggled off, so there's no reason to leave it on.

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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Krydical on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:35 am

    ok I am a bit lost here on laser sights. Does laser sights improve your accuracy because you can see the red beam (and the nme can see it too) , or there is a background game mechanic that helps with accuracy?

    To receive benefit from laser sights does the red beam need to be shooting out? Or can i press "L" to turn off beam to receive benefit?
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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Virtia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:16 pm

    Krydical wrote:ok I am a bit lost here on laser sights. Does laser sights improve your accuracy because you can see the red beam (and the nme can see it too) , or there is a background game mechanic that helps with accuracy?

    To receive benefit from laser sights does the red beam need to be shooting out? Or can i press "L" to turn off beam to receive benefit?

    The accuracy improvement is a behind-the-scenes numerical game mechanic. Basically, it tightens up your starting cone of fire when firing from the hip. The visible red beam does absolutely nothing. You will still receive the full benefit of the laser sight with the visible beam turned off.

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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Courtesy on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:58 am

    Thoughts on the Eidolon?
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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

    Post  Virtia on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:25 pm

    Courtesy wrote:Thoughts on the Eidolon?

    Despite being a common pool weapon to a lot of classes, I skipped writing on the Eidolon because the conclusion is simple and disappointing: Skip it. It's completely terrible.


    Eidolon Battle Rifle (1000)
    Damage: 250-167@125m
    Mag: 20/100
    Reload: 2.3s/3.4s
    Speed: 500m/s
    ROF: 331
    First, all three factions' battle rifles are basically identical. The Vanu weapon has no bullet drop, but one tier lower minimum damage (TR/NC have 200@85m minimum). The TR's AMR-66 has a meaningless 333RPM fire rate instead of 331. That's it.

    At close range, battle rifles kill in 4 body shots or 2 headshots. This is offset by a truly atrocious hipfire cone of fire, meaning you won't hit the broadside of the barn you're standing right next to without ADS. Really, there's no saving this hipfire on this weapon, even with the laser sight. It's just too bad of a starting point.

    At long range, it begins to come into its element, but it still has problems. First, at long range, ours kills in 6 shots rather than the other empires' 5. Despite seeming minor (all our other weapons do the same thing, more or less), this is a massive component of the weapon's problems, as I'll get to later. Problem two, the base ADS cone of fire is not tight enough. Our standard long range weapons have a base ADS cone of fire one third the size of this weapon's, meaning even your no-recoil first shot won't be that accurate. Problem three, recoil. The Eidolon's per-shot recoil is over twice as high as even an LMG's, which are normally the hardest-pulling weapons in the game. This is slightly offset by a first-shot multiplier of 1 (which is basically irrelevant since it's not full auto anbyways). Is it controllable? Yes. Is it pleasant? No. Its long range capacity is further offset by truly hideous cone of fire bloom per shot. Even if you compensate perfectly for the recoil and your crosshairs are zero'ed on a hostile, your second shot will have more than double the cone of fire of your first shot.

    What you end up with is a weapon that's kind of okay for picking off weak stragglers at mid-long range, but which is awful for basically every other task. Is it okay long range? Yes, but only if you take a lot of time between shots, meaning the other guy can just run nine times out of ten. Its major problems? A complete lack of competent close range performance, and being outclassed at range by our standard weapons.


    Since we're talking Carbines in this thread, let's compare it to the Pulsar C:
    Damage:
    The Pulsar C at long range will kill in 9 shots, rather than the Eidolon's 6. The Pulsar C also has 50% more ammo, so its ammo pool is equal in total killing potential. The Pulsar C has an ROF of 577 RPM versus the Eidolon's 331. This gives the Pulsar C a long range TTK (time to kill) of 0.936 seconds, assuming all shots hit body at full auto. The Eidolon has a long range TTK of 1.08 seconds, assuming all shots hit body as fast as the weapon can be fired. Note that, if you were TR or NC, that TTK would actually be 0.906 seconds (5 shots to kill instead of 6), making there be at least some argument for buying the battle rifle. Fortunately for your wallet, you're not, so there isn't.

    Accuracy
    The Pulsar C is one of those weapons I mentioned with a third the initial ADS cone of fire, so your first shot will be more accurate than the Eidolon's. The Pulsar C has less than half the per-shot recoil (0.42, balanced left and right; the Eidolon is 1.0 up and to the right), with only a 1.5x first shot multiplier, meaning even the second shot (usually your worst shot in a burst) is still less off than the Eidolon's second shot. A rough calculation of 9*0.42+0.21 gives 3.99 recoil total for the Pulsar versus the Eidolon's 6*1 = 6 recoil (recoil doesn't actually work this way, but it's an okay total measure for comparison purposes. Note that small, constant hits of recoil (Pulsar C) are much more controllable than large, inconsistent, jerky ones (Eidolon)). ADS COF bloom on the Pulsar C is less than half of the Eidolon's as well, so don't think the Eidolon wins on that front.

    Versatility
    The Pulsar C isn't good up close. I said as much. However, its hipfire CoF is less than half that of the Eidolon. The Pulsar C can actually hit the broadside of a barn if you burst fire it, whereas the Eidolon will still miss even if you single shot it. Should you take the Pulsar C into a Biolab assault? No, but you might still get a kill or two before you die for your mistake. The Eidolon, you'd be pretty lucky to win any fights. For numeric comparison of close range performance, consider the VX6-7, a close-range beast, which has a TTK of 0.525 seconds inside of 10m with all body shots. The Pulsar C is a LONG RANGE weapon, but at close range, it does 167 damage per shot, for a TTK of 0.623 seconds, which is actually respectable, if not particularly good. The Eidolon with its fearsome 331RPM ROF clocks in at... 0.725 seconds point blank. To put in perspective how crap this is, the default Beamer pistol kills in 0.8 seconds at point blank and has half the hipfire cone of fire while doing it, and everyone who has used it should know the Beamer sucks.


    So like I said. Skip it. It's terrible.


    As it happens, there's a fairly handy (albiet very long) video some guy took of the Eidolon back in late beta. To my knowledge, no changes have been made to them between when this was shot and now. It's largely uncut video, but pretty much what you'll see is a couple cases where the guy actually gets a kill and many more where he really would have done a million times better with the Orion (he's playing HA). Note also that he has this kitted exactly backwards from how I would use it (he's trying to use it more CQC with those attachments), so that's part of the problem, but still. Watch his CQC performance. Every time I noticed, he's using upwards of 10 shots before he lands 4. That's just down to the crap hipfire on the thing even with a laser sight.

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    Re: Weapons: Light Assault/Engineer Carbines

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